Sometimes I wonder how Full Tilt comes up with the names for its tables. Is a table named 'Finger (deep)' supposed to be a joke? Moving on...I was scrolling through such tables recently and noticed that the players/flop stats on the Pot Limit Hold 'Em looked particularly juicy. Unfortunately these games don't seem to run above .25/.50 but I tried a few out just for fun and...WOW is the action there juicy. It's like a NLHE table from 2 years ago.
Here was a nice donk method of playing a big pocket pair for 200 bbs:
Seat 1: bruechips (UTG+1) ($116.90)
Seat 8: BB ($100)
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bruechips [Qs Qc]
bruechips raises to $1.75
BB raises to $3 (Donk method berrs going off in my head. Recentry I have seen a rot more min 3-betting in position with weaker hands (like 77/AT type of hands that then 5-b shove to a re-raise), especially from shorter stacks, but min re-raising my UTG+1 raise from the BB...that is some serious strength being shown by this donkey. If it's arr rags on the frop I wourd probabry carr one bet or something, but I am mostry set-mining here, as retarded as that sounds with QQ.)
bruechips calls $1.25
*** FLOP *** [6c Jc Qh]
BB checks
bruechips bets $6.25 (Bingo. It might be tempting to check here or bet smaller because, if he's a decent player with an overpair, what can he really beat when I bet other than a total bluff? Also him having clubs is unlikely since his range is probably AA, KK, and AK. But here are the factors that make this not only a must-bet situation, but a must-bet-full-pot situation: 1) He's not a good player, he's a donkey, who will have a lot of trouble getting away from an overpair, 2) this is pot limit, so if I want to get in 200 bbs, I need to start by betting full pot now, 3) there are a lot of cards that could kill my action, even if I still have the best hand, like a T, a club, an A, a K...)
BB raises to $12.50 (Joy to the world!!! His second min raise of the hand! For the same reasons I bet to begin with, I raise here. He has either an overpair or JJ and there's no way he's going anywhere with any of those hands given his min raising donkery)
bruechips raises to $30
BB raises to $96.25 (He insta-re-pots for almost his entire stack)
bruechips raises to $113.90, and is all in
BB calls $0.75, and is all in
bruechips shows [Qs Qc]
BB shows [Kd Kh] (Classic donk method of the big pocket pair. Hopefully I don't need to tell you loyal readers that going broke for 200 bbs, or even 100 bbs, on this flop after showing a lot of strength preflop is absolutely terrible. My range is pretty much QQ, JJ, 66, AcKc, and AcQc, against which he has 18% equity.)
*** TURN *** [6c Jc Qh] [8d]
*** RIVER *** [6c Jc Qh 8d] [9h]
bruechips wins the pot ($197.25) with three of a kind, Queens
-BRUECHIPS
6 comments:
If you're playing 100BBs deep, are you more likely to 4-bet PF and just try to get it in on a raggy flop? I agree the min-3-bet from an OOP donkey screams strength, but I recently ran into a similar spot against an OOP player who min-3-bet and then min-5-bet(!) with JJ. Donkeys are predictable, but they also have no idea how to value hands.
And, can we call the min-re-raise the "Donkey Squeal"?
I think a line/move like this really becomes dependent on the information that you have on your opponent. In his assumption he had a strong hand and is making it very obvious before you can make a play such as smooth calling his min-raise to disguise your hand. In most situations, you need to 3 bet here.
Just my opinion, would encourage insight.
http://www.drawflush.com
Oh and one more thing,
I recently started playing 10$ Pot Limit, It may not be same stake as you, but I absolutely agree on its allure. Very juicy.
For some reason I get the impression that pot limit gives people a false sense of security on their stack, so they are more liberal in their hand selection, obviously this is not the case.
http://www.drawflush.com
Thanks for the comments, guys. I like "Donkey Squeal for a min re-raise...other suggestions? Maybe we'll take suggestions for a while and then have a poll to decide it.
As for this hand, if I were 100 bbs deep and raising from this position, I'd still be just calling. If I were in late position, I might just get it in there. Even against a complete retard, if you 4-b from early position, he will realize that you are repping either AA or KK. Even if he does decide to go with JJ, equity of QQ vs. JJ+,AK, is 47%, so with so little invested in the pot, 4-b/getting it in is a pretty marginal play. Even vs. TT+,AQ+, QQ has only 55% equity. Whereas if you open in late position sometimes people just make up their mind you can't have anything and will get in 100 bbs with 77 or AJ or something. They will also sometimes be 3-betting some random Q8o that will then fold to a re-raise. I think in your hand with AK vs. the JJ, you were opening in late position, which is why I recommended just going with it preflop, or just calling the min 3-bet. Also I think there's a big difference between 6-max and full ring. In 6-max there's a wider range of hands that get min-3b. Here's an example of a 6-max hand:
http://spritpot.blogspot.com/2008/09/art-of-min-raise-part-13.html
This is precisely because in a 6-max game you're never far from the button.
Incidentally, in general I'd rather just call the min 3-bet with QQ than AK, which I'd prefer 4-betting with, for a few reasons: 1) You can flop huge with QQ by hitting a set and stacking an overpair, and 2) while AK and QQ have similar equities vs. a range like JJ+,AQ+ when all five cards are out, QQ will more often have a hand on the flop, as AK needs the last two cards to get a pair to beat an underpair some of the time, and you'll almost always be facing a bet on the flop. 3) Because of card removal effects, with AK you'll be up against AA and KK less often, which means you can try and shove there and get a fold out of underpairs or some other random bluffing hands.
But it's pretty much never a bad idea just to call a min 3-b in position vs. a donkey, since you can use your position and putative superior post-flop skills to increase your EV in the hand, with the only exception being if the donkey is shortstacked.
well, the post was good, but the comments were even better. Thank you!!
Donkey-Squeal, the Hee-Haw, the Waggle (tail wagging?)...anything that evokes the image of a donkey or other animal giddy and wetting himself with excitement, yet committed to the twin principles of Minimum Value Extraction & Optimal Drawing Odds.
Ah, I didn't pick up that it was a FR table. Agreed that makes the call better. I'm more accustomted to 6-max aggro-spewing.
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