Since my last recap seemed to generate some interest, I figured I'd keep going until somebody tells me "Stop!" The show this week didn't feature anything quite as spectacular as durrrr's performance in episode 2, but there were still some interesting hands.
But first, as a completely irrelevant aside, can I say that I'm confused by all the concern about money given to AIG being paid to other banks? The whole reason to bail out AIG was concern of "contaigon", i.e., they can't pay off obligations, which bankrupts other important players in the financial system. Now that they are indeed using the money to pay off their obligations to other important players in the financial system that's....shocking? bad? I don't get it. If you want to get mad about the money going out the door in the form of bonuses, fine. But some of the money had Goldman's name on it the minute the government started writing checks.
OK, moving on...I was hoping Negreanu might step up his game a little bit as the session went along. Ehh...I think we can so far say:
[ ] Negreanu pwns HSP
I mean...when you're first doing leakfinding with a friend who's new to NLHE, what's like the first thing you explain to them to improve profitability? Probably something like...stop open limp-calling marginal hands? Stop check/calling the flop with marginal hands? Especially vs. good players? Who is Daniel trying to pwn post-frop by open limping As8s? Anyway, that's what he decides to do, and Barry raises him from the button with JTo. Of course the flop comes Q98 with two diamonds and one spade, giving Barry the nut straight.
Daniel check/calls a heftily sized c-bet. I think he would probably be folding this if it weren't for the one spade on board. If he were in position, so that he'd have much more freedom to operate on the turn and river, it's a more defensible call. But here, even if Barry does have AK/AJ or an underpair so that Daniel is ahead...how often is Daniel going to get to showdown? If Daniel does nail the turn with an 8 or an A, how often does he have the best hand when a bunch of money goes in?
Well, we're about to find out because an offsuit A peels off on the turn. This gives Daniel aces up and pretty much guarantees that he's going to lose a bunch of money in the hand. His check/call on the turn is pretty standard. He might consider raising to protect his hands against diamonds, but given their stack sizes, he can't really raise enough to protect his hands without committing himself vs. all the hands that pwn him, like AQ, QQ, 99, JT, etc...and I don't think Barry is going to go nutso and lose a whole bunch of money with AK on that board.
The river comes an offsuit K, a bad card for Daniel. He now loses to AK and KK, which he was beating before. He makes kind of a crying call of a very hefty river value bet from Barry. Maybe he thinks Barry would value bet KQ that strong, hoping that Daniel had an A-high flush draw that ended up with just a pair of aces? Or Barry could turn QJ into a bluff on the river? Daniel played the hand so passively that he does induce some 3-barrel bluffs from Barry on a gross board like this, but in this hand he got pwnd pretty hard. And those are just the kind of tough situations you get yourself into when you limp/call and then check/call twice.
The other big hand of the night also involved Negreanu. He opened with a 2.8x raise holding JJ, and got called by Eastgate holding 33 on the button, Benyamine holding 44 in the SB, and Eli Elezra with 32ss from the BB. The flop comes 742 with two diamonds. Looks safe enough for JJ, so Daniel fires out 8k when checked to. Eastgate floats him with 33, and Benyamine raises to 41k with his set, prompting an instafold from Elezra.
I think Eastgate's call really pwns Daniel here. He's thinking that Benyamine is reading Eastgate's hand well, and hoping that Daniel is c-betting with air as he normally would, and hoping to take it down (as he did with 9h6h on a dry paired board earlier in the show...he got called by Doyle slowplaying KK and Elezra raised and lost a bunch of money bluffing with A-high). Benyamine is definitely capable of making such a play with even a marginal draw such as 86 or A3. Certainly he would be doing it with big diamond draws and straight flush draws quite often. It's also unlikely that Benyamine would flat call a smallish raise preflop with AA-QQ this deep, with Eastgate having called already and Elezra virtually guaranteed to call in the BB. So the only hands Daniel needs to worry about are sets and maybe 24s or 74s. He decides to call, making the pot just over 100k going to the turn.
The turn is an offsuit 4, a very bad card for Daniel. None of the hands Daniel beat on the frop are helped by that card, unless Benyamine were making a move with 45 or A4. Moreover, it reduces the number of 44 combinations DB could have from 3 to 1, and the number of 42s combinations from 3 to 2. That makes 11 combos total that now make a full house or better. Not very many compared to the flush and straight draw combos. If Daniel liked his hand on the frop, he can only like it more on the turn.
Benyamine leads on the turn with quads with a small bet of $35k. He probably thinks Daniel has either an overpair or a flush draw, and wants to extract value from both. The pairing of the board means that Daniel would be more reluctant to try and see the river with a draw. Benyamine also might think he can represent a draw that doesn't want to put the rest of the money in because the board pairs, and therefore get Daniel to shove some weak draws, or overpairs that wouldn't want any draws to see the river given how big the pot has now gotten.
At first I thought a bigger bet would work better since Daniel won't call a small bet with draws anyway, and a big bet is probably how Benyamine would play a draw himself (and therefore be more likely to action from Daniel with an overpair). But actually I think that the small bet works well because it would give Daniel the idea that he could shove and get a fold if he himself had a draw. With about $156k left in Daniel's stack, if DB bets $80k or more, Daniel will realize that he has no fold equity. But if DB bets $35k and Daniel is sitting on Ad8d or 8d6d, he might think, "paired board, I have reverse implied odds, so I can't really call this bet. But since the board is paired and I can force DB to call off another $121k with a shove, I can shove my draw and win the pot that way unless DB has a boat. Since there are only 11 possible boat-or-better combos and many plausible draws, I should ship it in."
Benyamine should realize that his own range is polarized to draws/complete air and boats (or maybe I'm way off and he would play A7 like this, but I kinda doubt it). I don't know his game well enough to know how he would play an A-high diamond draw in this situation. If he does something other than bet $35k, he sets himself up to be exploited a bit, but Daniel might have been tilted enough at this point to not realize that the small bet was designed to induce action and that Benyamine wouldn't have a draw in that spot.
In the end, Daniel looks pretty bad stuffing in 200bbs drawing stone cold dead with an overpair. But I think this hand is a little more excusable than the As8s hand, because the range Benyamine is betting for value is so narrow, and Eastgate's flop call put Benyamine in a perfect bluffing spot.
In other tidbits from the show, it looks like Doyle is determined to slowplay all his monsters and make big bets with his bluffs and semi-bluffs. This is pretty much the same pattern he showed at the Poker After Dark cash game. The other players are definitely starting to notice, so he probably needs to change gears soon. This does make David Benefield's fold of trip sixes on PAD look a lot better, if you thought it was a bad play the first time you saw it.
From the clips at the end of the show, it looked like durrrr and Barry will play another big pot next episode...can't wait to see that one!
-BRUECHIPS
Episode 456: Jeanne David
1 week ago
5 comments:
the way Doyle is playing his big hands probably indicates how tight he is playing these days. Nice Article.
Frop?
Very well written. At what point does Eastgate get up before he donates any more? He lost $25K by putting the wrong color chip in and is getting completely pwned after advertising that he folded 42 on the previous show. These guys are eating him alive.
Well Eastgate probably folded because he is playing deep stack. (the 42 hand) But i think he just folded a bunch of decent hands.
I think he folded 42 because barry was in the hand, and he called a huge bet. THe pot was big, and you would expect the opponent to have 1010 77 or 2X.
Deep stack poker is different. You can't jsut shove 200 BB, DN calls to minimize the pot.
Daniel is a great player, but has some tiolt issues and runs bad. Runing into quads and insane hands. The A8 hand was quite unlucky, but his fold was good on the turn.
I think your post is great but consider that they ain't going ot play 2000 hands in one day. They play LAG becasue they jsut won't see many hands.
As well it's 400/800 and a 200BB buy in. I honestly think you got to realize some players make mistakes and you can't really say much, you have seen only a few hands.
1 hour out of liek a 12 hours session? i would suspect your read on hte players and seeing hte whole cards would be diffrent from the guys actully siting there.
I think you shouldn't be criticizing any pro PERIOD.
They are at that limit for a reason while your stuck writing on a free blog site.
ANd as for doyle :slow playing" hes doing it becasue hes adjusting to players like Zygmund and Dwan and such who stick so much money on sub par hands you would be shakin your head too. Like the q10 hand durrr hand. Absolutely retarded, it's a good thing he was playing vs scared money and barry who can lay down aces in that spot.
I think you really shudn't judge a pro by one session they play. It is only a few hundred hands theyu played and of that only a few are shown.
Yea, some players have their days they are bad and there big pairs run into cold decks.
I think it really would be more "educational" to post something worth reading.
We don't need another "guru" who writes free blogs in hopes of getting money...
Write about how eastgate played on scared money how this can affect a players game.
ROR! Thanks Anonymous #3! For some reason I found your comment really funny.
In response:
>Deep stack poker is different. You >can't jsut shove 200 BB, DN calls >to minimize the pot.
I agree deep stack poker is different...to which hand are you referring in this comment?
>The A8 hand was quite unlucky, but >his fold was good on the turn.
This must be a different A8 hand than the one I commented on...you mean the hand against Eli where he raised the AKQ flop and check/folded the turn? I didn't really think his flop raise was a great play...then the turn came a J or T or something it's a pretty easy fold. I don't know if I'd call it "unlucky" to lose 60 bbs or whatever it was on that flop with A8...it's like the 186th nuts or something. Not exactly a cooler.
>I think your post is great
Thanks!
>They play LAG becasue they jsut >won't see many hands.
I don't see how the number of hands you get dealt affects optimal strategy. Anyway, if you're still talking about Negreanu, I didn't think he was playing poorly because he was too loose...Dwan probably played looser. I just think Daniel's limp/calling strategy preflop is not effective at a deep table full of good players.
>i would suspect your read on hte >players and seeing hte whole cards >would be diffrent from the guys >actully siting there.
Probably so, but I only get to see what's on the TV show just like you do.
>I think you shouldn't be >criticizing any pro PERIOD.
>They are at that limit for a >reason while your stuck writing on >a free blog site.
Well, the idea is to start discussion about the interesting hands in the show. Inevitably that leads to opinions about the players's strategies. As I said in my first post, I comment "with the disclaimer that [Daniel Negreanu] has way more experience and success playing poker than I ever will". I don't include that disclaimer every time in the interests of space but it should be obvious.
>Nd as for doyle :slow playing" hes >doing it becasue hes adjusting to >players like Zygmund and Dwan and >such who stick so much money on >sub par hands you would be shakin >your head too. Like the q10 hand >durrr hand. Absolutely retarded, >it's a good thing he was playing >vs scared money and barry who can >lay down aces in that spot.
Doyle's definitely gotten value out of slowplaying thus far. But having shown down a few monsters after playing passively now, I think the players will start to adjust. As for durrrr's QT play, you're entitled to your own opinion, but consensus seems to be he played the hand pretty well, if unconventionally.
>I think it really would be more >"educational" to post something >worth reading.
>We don't need another "guru" who >writes free blogs in hopes of >getting money...
Dude, if you want to read something different, you're welcome to go to a different site. I think there might be one or two other poker blogs out there. This blog is free because we do it for fun, not "in hopes of getting money".
-bruechips
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